IBIS Macromodel Task Group Meeting date: 22 August 2017 Members (asterisk for those attending): ANSYS: Dan Dvorscak Curtis Clark Broadcom (Avago): Xingdong Dai Bob Miller Cadence Design Systems: * Ambrish Varma Brad Brim Kumar Keshavan Ken Willis eASIC: David Banas Marc Kowalski Ericsson: Anders Ekholm GlobalFoundries: Steve Parker IBM Luis Armenta Trevor Timpane Intel: * Michael Mirmak Keysight Technologies: Fangyi Rao * Radek Biernacki Ming Yan Maxim Integrated Products: Hassan Rafat Mentor, A Siemens Business: John Angulo * Arpad Muranyi Micron Technology: Randy Wolff Justin Butterfield SiSoft: * Walter Katz Todd Westerhoff * Mike LaBonte Synopsys: Rita Horner Kevin Li Teraspeed Consulting Group: Scott McMorrow Teraspeed Labs: * Bob Ross TI: Alfred Chong The meeting was led by Arpad Muranyi. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Opens: - Arpad: Should we meet next week, after the holiday? - Radek: I cannot join. - Arpad: Since most seem to have no conflict we will meet. ------------- Review of ARs: - Walter to create BIRD158.6 draft 4 with his version that removes the Ts4file_Boundary and related parameters. - Done. - Mike L. to add cumulative revision history to Walter's BIRD158.6 draft 4 and post it. - Done. Bob Ross did most of the writing. - Michael M. to create BIRD192.1 with the discussed change of the first item in the List description from to . -------------------------- Call for patent disclosure: - None. ------------------------- Review of Meeting Minutes: - Arpad: Does anyone have any comments or corrections? [none] - Michael M: Motion to approve the minutes. - Walter Katz: Second. - Arpad: Anyone opposed? [none] ------------- New Discussion: BIRD158.6: AMI Touchstone Analog Buffer Models: - Radek: Bob Miller sees a need only for buffer to pad models. - That should be the only option. - He said the model maker could have difficulty producing a model with just the buffer and no on-die. - Walter: Tradition IBIS has included on-die. - Now that we have on-die package modeling, we use it for power, not signal. - We only need on-die for rail distribution. - Arpad: It could be important for signals because C_comp only works well with small C_comp compared to edge time. - A C_comp for only the transistors could help. - With Touchstone there is no C_comp though. - BIRD 189 gives the option to write or not write the on-die model. - Why would we limit ourselves, when in the future we might want to do this for signals? - We might have a rule based on whether on-die is present. - Walter: Agree. - Randy's proposal is another way to move C_comp to the on-die. - Radek: We may get double counting of on-die interconnect. - Bob Miller does not want to include any package information. - Arpad: Does draft 4 prevent what Bob Miller wants? - Radek: He does not generate the package model. - It should not be required. - Walter: Bob produces s4p models with on-die. - A model maker can simply exclude the package. - Radek: Version 7 must be clear on where the package information is, to avoid double counting. - Bob: The boundary should be buffer as originally intended. - It cam be broken into buffer to pad and pad to pin. - We should overrule Bob Miller's proposal. - That would be simpler. - For this discussion we are not dealing with power integrity. - It is only about s4p models. - Arpad: We do not need another version of this BIRD. - Draft 4 does not prevent what Bob Miller wants to do. - Bob: Bob Miller is taking the purist view. - Arpad: I would like to accept draft 4 as is. - Arpad showed BIRD 158.6 draft 4. - Radek: The diagram previously had open terminals on the left. - "buffer terminals" on the right should be "pad terminals". - Walter: We could add a sentence about what traditional buffer models include, which is often on-die. - Bob: I support that. We should not offer a pad terminal option. - The previous version had three possible locations mentioned. - Walter's sentence covers going out to a pad, but it is still considered a buffer model. - Arpad: I don't think Walter's sentence is need. - We say if the buffer to pad model is provided it is shorted. - It is still a buffer terminal. - Bob: We should not become confused with BIRD 189. - Radek: We must be able to explain this up front. - Walter: We need a motion to get closure. - Walter: Motion to submit BIRD 158.6 draft 4 to Open Forum. - Arpad: Second, but the figure needs to be fixed. - Bob: We should see the fix before submitting. - Radek: I did send an image with that option. - Walter: Radek should send the BIRD with the image changes. - Motion withdrawn. AR: Radek Biernacki to send BIRD 158.6 draft 5 with updated image. BIRD 192: Clarification of List Default Rules. - Michael M: BIRD 192 was updated to remove initial default value text. - This is 192.1 - A vote is scheduled for the next Open Forum meeting. - Ambrish: Both 192 and 192.1 are on the BIRDs web page. - Mike L: Both were in play for introduction at the last Open Forum meeting. - I will take the old one down. - Walter: Motion to adjourn. - Michael M: Second. - Arpad: Thank you all for joining. ------------- Next meeting: 05 September 2017 12:00pm PT ------------- IBIS Interconnect SPICE Wish List: 1) Simulator directives